{"id":334,"date":"2005-11-24T00:00:00","date_gmt":"2005-11-24T00:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.nejatngo.org\/en\/2005\/11\/24\/interview-alen-cheuvalrias-with-dr-mahmoud\/"},"modified":"2021-02-23T00:05:31","modified_gmt":"2021-02-22T20:35:31","slug":"interview-alen-cheuvalrias-with-dr-mahmoud","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.nejatngo.org\/en\/posts\/334","title":{"rendered":"Interview Alen Cheuvalrias with Dr. Mahmoud"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Dr.Mahmoud worked for Mujahedin&rsquo;s diplomatic service in Italy and he is a doctor now:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>When for the first time did you contact with the organization? <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>In 1980, while I was studying medicine in Anc&Ocirc;ne, Italy. Therefore, I joined the Iranian youth supporting Islamic Revolution against Shah. I established some relations with Mujahedin Khalq since they were the only movement making news in Iran&rsquo;s political scene. <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>Where was their center? <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>They had an office near the Medicine University &ldquo;Posa Tora&rdquo; and had named themselves &ldquo;Muslim Students Society&rdquo;. <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp; <\/span><span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/span>Haw many people were working there? <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>There were only two permanent members. That was only a base to recruit forces and send them immediately to Rome or Iraq in accordance with the organizations need. <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>How did you start to work for the MKO? <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>At first I sold Mujahedin&rsquo;s publications to Iranians who lived in Anc&Ocirc;ne . Then they took the collected money. Since I could speak Italian fluently, they sent me to diplomatic committee in Rome, in 1984. We were settled in &ldquo;Nomentania&rdquo; which was not far from Iranian and Libyan embassies. I was obliged to give up my studies and dedicate myself to my mission. Our offices were in a small two floor building where we had twelve rooms, two for diplomatic committee, two for the committee responsible for distributing the publication , two for the manager and two for the service responsible for relations with Iranian students all over Italy. At night, we slept in an apartment which was named&rdquo;relaxation base&rdquo;.<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>Did you receive any wage for your work? <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>No. but if we became permanent, all our equipments including clothes would be met by the organization. <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>How was the work in diplomatic committee? <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>We were three people. My mission included arranging relations between the organization and Italian politic men in order to achieve their support for our own policies. <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>Where did the orders come from? <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>I received them from Paris through telephone, of course not from Masud&#8217;s own mouth but from a woman called &quot;Elahe&quot;. <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>In Rome, didn&#8217;t you have a responsible to organize your activities? <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>No, we shouldn&rsquo;t talk together about our own duties. <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>What did they want you to do? <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>First I had to find the most influential person in the party, then I determined different political movements. I sent the information to Paris and there they told me among these people which ones have the priority to be contacted.This way, we collected more than 700 signatures of ministers, ministers deputies etc.. .<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>Give me the names.<\/p>\n<p>Luigi Ciriaco De Mita one of the Democratic Christians, Bettino Craxi, general secretary of Social Democratic Party and former prime minister , Claudio Martelli, Craxi&#8217;s assistant , Nicollazi member of Social Democratic Party, Alessandro Natta of Communist Party, Enrico Berlinger Chief of Rome fraction of Communist Party, Flaminio Piccoli director of Christian Democratic Party, Emanuele Villante of Communist Party, Achille Occhetto Secretary of Communist party, Giacomo Mancini Socialist leader. I contacted all these people personally and convinced them to sign the petitions. <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>How could you convince them? <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>I emphasized that Mujahedin are working for peace. Besides I told each party what it was interested in. For Communists, we were seeking social justice. In Democrat Christians&#8217; view we were supporter of Democracy. In Italy, we obtained a status where all politic men knew Mujahedin just as dissident movement against regime in Iran. <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>Note some of the tactics you used to obtain these supports. <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>For example, to<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp; <\/span>obtain the support of Communist Party, we invited ourselves to the annual congress and tried to get a time for speech, so we used the situation and approached the most important participants. <\/p>\n<p>Then with their support we could get the representatives&#8217; rooms and contact parliament members. We acted in the same way in Senate. <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>Did you use any other methods? <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>We also distributed our journal &quot;Iran Liberation&quot;, this journal included instructions for sending donations. <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>What did you do with the collected sums? <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>The sums were given to the financial committee of the organization in Italy. After that I didn&rsquo;t have the right to know. <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>How was your relation with your high ranking officials? <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>Strangulating and even immoral. Every night, after saying prayers, we had to write our self &ndash; criticizing texts and give it to our responsible but he prevented us from reading books and even thinking our own thoughts. <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>Why did you leave Mujahedin? <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>For political reasons. Gradually, I understood that neither<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp; <\/span>they defend democracy nor freedom, nor national independence. Besides I didn&rsquo;t feel comfortable due to the money they gave us. We didn&rsquo;t know where it came from. They claimed that they receive the money from European civilians or parties, but we knew they lied and they had special relations with Iraq. They also had some relations with terrorist organizations. <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>Can you state them in details?<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>In Anc&ocirc;ne, I had married a girl who was a medicine student too. She worked in News Committee of MEK, in Rome. She was responsible for searching the press and her principal duty was seeking information on terrorism: information on Red Brigades and members of IRN in Ireland and Lebanon and etc. <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>This does not prove the organization link to terrorism. <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>Why do you think we did that?<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp; <\/span>To fill the papers? Mujahedin got the information of the activities of these movements because of political objectives. <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>Did you have other reasons for your tendency to defect from Mujahedin? <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>My wife and I were worried about our security. I had realized that the MKO had called medicine students to Iraq in order to treat the allegedly injured members in the hospital. In fact, they send them to the front to fight while Iran and Iraq were fighting each other.<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>Do you have any evidence for what you say? <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>The students were killed. I think a boy named Mehdi was killed in such away after our departure. I didn&rsquo;t know his last name but he was from Shiraz. Another person named Mehdi Ahmad Far who worked with me in diplomatic committee was killed in war, in 1987. Some individuals who saw they have been deceived, tried to return to Italy. They asked for their passport which was seized by the organization. In response, they were beaten or thrown in to the prison and then given up to Iraq Intelligence Service. They were taken to Turkey later and left without passport and money. Mujahedin even canceled their residential permission in Italy. <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>I want clear names, prove or witnesses.<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>This is what everybody says. <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>Why did they give their passport and money to MKO?<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>It was systematic. When one entered the organization, gave his passport and all his money. The passports were used to transfer other members. <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>Did it happen to you and your wife? <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>Yes, but when we insisted, the organization ended with returning our passports to us. However we didn&rsquo;t have the right to leave the Camp, we escaped at night, in 1986.<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>Why did they return your passports? <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>Without doubt because we were two, so we were more powerful. Besides I worked for diplomatic committee. I had relations with influential politic men in Italy. Do you still have question? <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>Just the last point. Have you ever visited Masud or Maryam Rajavi? <\/p>\n<p>&#8211;<span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <\/span>No, never.&nbsp;<\/span><span style=\"font-family: ' font-size: 10pt\"><span style=\"mso-spacerun: yes\">&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In 1980, while I was studying medicine in Anc\u00d4ne, Italy. Therefore, I joined the Iranian youth supporting Islamic Revolution against Shah. I established some relations with Mujahedin Khalq since they were the only movement making news in Iran\u2019s political scene&#8230;At first I sold Mujahedin\u2019s publications to Iranians who lived in Anc\u00d4ne . Then they took the collected money. Since I could speak Italian fluently, they sent me to diplomatic committee in Rome, in 1984. We were settled in \u201cNomentania\u201d which was not far from Iranian and Libyan embassies.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":-1,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_lmt_disableupdate":"","_lmt_disable":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[24406],"tags":[14,24429],"module":[78],"ctype":[17],"blog":[3],"class_list":["post-334","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-mek-ex-members","tag-defectors-of-mujahedin-khalq","tag-mko-former-members","module-interview","ctype-story","blog-nejat-bloggers"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.nejatngo.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/334","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.nejatngo.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.nejatngo.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.nejatngo.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.nejatngo.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=334"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.nejatngo.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/334\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.nejatngo.org\/en\/wp-json\/"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.nejatngo.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=334"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.nejatngo.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=334"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.nejatngo.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=334"},{"taxonomy":"module","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.nejatngo.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/module?post=334"},{"taxonomy":"ctype","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.nejatngo.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/ctype?post=334"},{"taxonomy":"blog","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.nejatngo.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/blog?post=334"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}