– Regarding to your past story, while your presentation in MKO, which event was the most astonishing?
– It’s more than an event, I remember the way Masud separated children from their parents, the first separations contained forced divorces, the children became teams, the younger ones stayed in the organization and were grown by babysitters. Relation with parents had been nearly cut. In 1991 during the first Gulf War, Masud Rajavi abused the situation and sent all the children out of Iraq territory.
– You say abuse, didn’t he really use?
– At all. Masud had ordered to put the flags of Iran and the organization all around the camps so that the camps would be saved from American’s air attacks.
– You want to say, he had signed some agreement with Americans?
– Yes, under his own order, I sent messages to all the headquarters so that the pilots could see the flags â€¦
– Get back to the children.
– I understood that this work was not a security process because of two reasons, on one hand Masud didn’t order to take the old and sick members and on the other hand, to reach Jordan we had to drive across a road from Baqdad to Amen which was more dangerous than staying in our camps with a view to Americans air attacks.
– So, why did he separate these children from their parents?
– Firstly to prepare their parents for military service better, then to exploit the children.
– You’ll see. I was responsible for several buses carrying the children. When arriving at Jordan Border, we waited for more than 24 hours in the area between the two countries. It was forbidden to exit Iraq. The king of Jordan interfered personally and even received several children in his own palace and ordered to keep them in Jordan but we didn’t accept, therefore he facilitated their exit to Europe without passport.
– Didn’t the mothers come with their kids?
– No, we prevented them. While we were leaving the camps in Iraq, there were terrible stages. The mothers were groaning and crying. Some of them became mad.
– How could the children enter Europe without passport and their parents?Since, according to international laws, it is forbidden.
– As usual, we played with the laws. We had organized small groups containing children and adults. We sent them to several European airports. In my own case, a young woman and I were responsible of five groups of , five to six year old children. In Frankfort when dismounting the plane, we tore our tickets and also the children’s, to make sure that they wouldn’t return us to Jordan. Then we appeared at police security check, and claimed that we have escaped from Iran and applied political refugee status.
– Did you introduce yourselves as children’s parents?
– No, as friends or relatives. Thus, the children arrived the country under the duty of the authorities of that European country, in my case Germany.
– In this way, they were lost for their parents and the organization.
– Not yet, since we had also thought of this one. German officials insisted on the children’s needs. According to our own orders, the Mujahedin had to introduce themselves as tutors, regarding their nationality, Iranian and knowing Persian. Instead, for each little refugee, the adopting family received financial aid from German government. The same process was accomplished in many other countries such as Netherlands.
– Up to here, it’s a little complicated but legal.
– Yes, the money German government gave, was not spent for children. Mujahedin seized it and sent it to Paris,their financial center.
– Keeping children cost a sum even if a very little sum.
– That’s why they were kept in one room in a group of five or six and sent to streets to gather funds under the cover of an establishment called "Iran Aid", after several months, the German and Dutch officials found out that the government charities for the children are embezzled. Therefore Mujahedin again distributed the children among the families.
– What happened to the children?
– They were finally grown up by their step â€“ parents. But all of them have a revengeful feeling for their real parents and more than that for the organization. After years, the organization tried to take the possession of the children in order to recruit them for its campaign unities, but a few of them accepted; less than 20 among hundreds.
– What did you feel while arranging children’s departure from Iraq?
– At that time nothing. Since my brain was washed, just like all my other colleagues, I found it a usual process. For me, it was one of the results of our fight. But, today when I look back, I feel disgusted. Imagine mothers’ suffer , under the pressure of this extravagances, mothers today separated from their children â€¦
– There is something strange in Mujahedin’s structure, and that is women’s position. How do you explain their number in high ranks of the organization?
– Marxism influence on Masud, justifies their choice to some extent. According to communism doctrine, the suffering class, victim class must lead the revolution. Considering the absence of workers, Rajavi proceeded with women. He presented them as a mistreated social class. The other reason is the problems of recruitment. Men are not enough, so he recruit women. Besides, for his campaign, Saddam aided him financially. And the last reason is that this method causes the men get marginalized to prohibit their ambitiousness.
– What has remained of NCRI National council of Resistance, today?
– This council was founded while Masud’s arrival to France, in 1981. He had to unite a dissident against Islamic government in Iran. Its principal members included Banisadr, PDKI Kurdish Party, and some other well known personalities. But, in March, 1983 Banisadr resigned from Masud and left NCR. On April 14th, Kurds Party also left it. Nowadays, NCR is only a dead and depraved establishment made of Mujahedin which has the duty of showing a democratic appearance and providing them a cover. In fact it has no independence.
– I’d like to know your answer to one question which has occupied my mind from the very beginning. Are Mujahedin a terrorist movement or not?
– I have no doubt that they are terrorists.
– To answer this question, I refer to the rules announced by United Nations. An organization is called terrorist which has targeted the civilians on one hand and has used violence to achieve its political, financial or personal benefits on the other hand. These criteria are exactly conformed with Mujahedin’s functions and motivations.
– So why do they answer: "we are not terrorist but resistants’ "
– Resistant against what? As I know they don’t have any foreign armed campaign against Iran.
– According to their states, they resist against Islamism of Regime in Tehran.
– First of all, I don’t think that armed combat is a good means to change regime in Iran because it obstructs process and evolution. In this case, the condition just becomes worse. I believe in the transition of minds to have a mutation in Iran society. Not with violence. After twenty years of armed attacks to Islamism, Mujahedin didn’t do anything but making it more powerful. They were the best supporters for the regime.
– I’ve heard somewhere, that MEK and AlQuida are considered in the same position. Don’t you find this analysis exaggerated?
– Not at all. The both organizations use the same system of psychological training to recruit their members and send them to death. This is their weak point and strength point at the same time. The strength point; since in this way they have individuals who follow them to the death. The weak point; because they must keep the members, isolated, in a definite situation for a long time. Therefore they need a territory. In the case of Al Quaida this territory was Afghanistan and for Mujahedin it was Iraq. Nor this one and neither that one could train their members in a free country with regulations and morals restrictions and organize their operations.
– However we see the cults developing in free countries too. In Europe, for instance, they use the process of brain washing for their partisans.
– Yes, but they don’t lead them to a point that they commit suicide and terrorist operations. It’s simple because in these cults the absolute isolation is impossible.
– What other similarities do you see between these two organizations?
– None of them have principals. They consider themselves over rules.
– But Al Quiada says that it acts according to Qoran and prevents its members from eating alcoholic and other foods which are forbidden in Islam.
– They say what they like. AlQuiada also uses Islam as a means to lead its goals, just like Mujahedin. Ben Ladeen and Masud Rajavi claim that they are Muslims but they often don’t follow Islam. When they send people to death, it’s not for religion but it’s for their avidity for power. Do you think that all Muslims are convinced with Masud Rajavi and Osama Ben Laden declarations?
– In Rajavi’s case, I don’t know but about Ben Laden it seems in Muslim society, most of the people have feeling of sympathy for him.
– Not for a long time. Today terror operations of Al Quaida have mainly targeted the muslims’ countries; the same sisters and brothers they say. This is a suitable prove for the absence of principals in this organization. Rajavi kills Iranians and AlQuiada Muslim arabs. While presence of Soviet Union in Afghanistan AlQuiada took Americans part and today they are fighting them. Mujahedin were Imam Khomeini’s friends and were operating attacks against American civilians, then they assisted Saddam Hussein against Iran. Now they are looking for taking themselves under US flag. Now, you tell me they have principals?
There is another similarity between Mujahedin and Al Quiada:
The culture of suicide.
They use Islam to justify themselves. Although, according to a Muslim’s rule, a martyr is a person who dies to defend his/ her faith, not a person who causes him/ her to be killed freely and willingly. Mujahedin the same as AlQuiada believe in the highest value for suicide. Therefore you have normal martyr and saint martyr. It is graved, on the tomb of those who self-immolated in June, 2003:"Saint Martyr"
– You want to say their action was excited by the organization?
– Not excited, they were ordered. Maryam, herself wanted her fans to victimize themselves if she or Masud are arrested. In order to excite the members for self- immolation, a ballet was arranged in the organization and was performed as a real religious custom.
To be continued